Barry HarrisThe method
8.6

The diminished scale as diminished chord + four dominant roots

Barry would not define the diminished scale as alternating half and whole steps. For him it is two diminished chords: a diminished seventh chord plus the roots of the four dominants that come from it, so each diminished note sits between two dominant roots.

In plain words

Ask most musicians what the diminished scale is and they answer ‘half step, whole step’. Barry called that answer ridiculous and said he had told teachers so all over the world. It gives the intervals but not where the scale comes from. Without the real answer, he warned, you miss most of the music, since most of it grows out of the diminished.

Believe: a talk to musicians5:105:4519:41Interview: Detroit, Bud Powell and the shuffle2:56Barry Harris, Smithsonian Jazz Oral History Program ¶298

His definition: lower each note of a diminished seventh chord in turn and you get four dominant sevenths. Their roots form a second diminished chord. Put the two diminished chords together and you have the diminished scale, four diminished notes and four dominant roots. From C diminished the dominants are B7, D7, F7 and A♭7, so the scale is C, D, E♭, F, F♯, A♭, A, B.

Diminished chords0:000:33Jazz theory, part 5: the sixth diminished scale2:333:13Student performances and coaching34:2434:59Barry Harris, Smithsonian Jazz Oral History Program ¶300

Seen this way, the usual interval patterns are just two starting points. Begin on a dominant root and you get half step, whole step; begin on a diminished note and you get whole step, half step. And because the two kinds of note alternate, every diminished note is surrounded by two dominant roots. In Bilbao Barry used this to build runs: step from a diminished note to a root beside it, and come back.

Jazz theory, part 5: the sixth diminished scale3:133:50Diminished chords1:091:412:183:37

The four dominants use only the notes of these two diminished chords; the third diminished chord shares none of them. In one class Barry went straight from the diminished scale to that question, what to do with the third diminished, and answered it by putting the third diminished with a major sixth chord: a major sixth diminished scale.

Jazz theory, part 5: the sixth diminished scale4:265:035:387:03

Step by step

  1. Take a diminished seventh chord and lower one note at a time by a half step. Each lowered note is the root of a dominant seventh. From C diminished (C, E♭, F♯, A): lower C for B7, E♭ for D7, F♯ for F7, A for A♭7.

    Diminished chords0:000:33Jazz theory, part 5: the sixth diminished scale2:33Student performances and coaching32:4133:51

  2. The four roots form a second diminished chord (B, D, F, A♭). Put it together with the first: that is the diminished scale.

    C diminished with its dominant roots (+)
    𝄞♭♯♭
    1. C
    2. D
    3. E♭
    4. F
    5. F♯
    6. A♭
    7. A
    8. B

    Diminished chords0:33Jazz theory, part 5: the sixth diminished scale3:13Student performances and coaching34:24

  3. Start on a dominant root and the scale runs half step, whole step; start on a note of the diminished chord and it runs whole step, half step.

    From B, a dominant root
    𝄞♭♯♭
    1. B
    2. C
    3. D
    4. E♭
    5. F
    6. F♯
    7. A♭
    8. A
    9. B
    From C, a diminished note
    𝄞♭♯♭
    1. C
    2. D
    3. E♭
    4. F
    5. F♯
    6. A♭
    7. A
    8. B
    9. C

    Jazz theory, part 5: the sixth diminished scale3:133:50

  4. Each diminished note sits between two dominant roots: C between B and D, E♭ between D and F, F♯ between F and A♭, A between A♭ and B.

    Diminished chords1:091:41

an added note, outside the scale

How he said to practise it

  • Take a note of the diminished chord, step to one of the dominant roots beside it and return to the note. Do it from each note in turn, then try moving two notes at once.

    Diminished chords1:412:182:593:37

  • Find the four dominants of a diminished chord by lowering one note at a time, and learn to run any of them into another. Barry tied knowing these four to knowing what the diminished scale is.

    Student performances and coaching33:5134:2434:59

In Barry’s words

Each one plays from the moment he says it. Every other moment he teaches it is listed below.

What is a diminished scale? It ain’t half step or whole step. A diminished scale is the four tonics of the four dominants form a diminished. And you put the two diminishes together. And that’s a diminished scale.

Student performances and coaching, New York City, 2004. A master class: a tenor player has just found the four dominants of B♭ diminished (concert). 34:42 Watch on YouTube at 34:42

The diminished itself, the tonic of those four dominants that come from it, you put these two together, and that’s the diminished scale.

Barry Harris, Smithsonian Jazz Oral History Program. His oral history, asked how he explains the diminished scale to teachers. ¶300

If you want whole step half step, you have to start on... the diminished note.

Jazz theory, part 5: the sixth diminished scale, New York City. Having played the scale from a dominant root (half step first), he shows the other start. 3:50 Watch on YouTube at 3:50

Each note is surrounded by two notes, so now use the two.

Diminished chords, Bilbao, 2016. Bilbao class: each note of C diminished lies between two dominant roots. 2:18 Watch on YouTube at 2:18

Where this comes from

Everything above is drawn from these. Open any one to check it.

Every moment he teaches it12 moments in 6 recordings

Each time opens the transcript there; the video plays when you are online.

Student performances and coaching

New York City, 2004 — 45 min On YouTube

  1. 34:24

    After the four dominants of B♭ diminished: the scale is two diminished chords, not half step, whole step.

    Watch on YouTube at 34:24

Diminished chords

Bilbao, 2016 — 7 min On YouTube

  1. 0:33

    C diminished’s dominant roots B, D, F, A♭ form a diminished; combined with C diminished, they make the scale.

    Watch on YouTube at 0:33

  2. 1:09

    Shows each note of C diminished surrounded by two dominant roots: C by B and D, and so on.

    Watch on YouTube at 1:09

  3. 3:37

    Builds runs by borrowing a dominant root next to a diminished note and returning.

    Watch on YouTube at 3:37

  4. 5:58

    Plays the roots of the dominants alternating with the diminished notes.

    Watch on YouTube at 5:58

Jazz theory, part 5: the sixth diminished scale

New York City — 14 min On YouTube

  1. 2:33

    With a guitarist: the four dominants of C diminished, then ‘let me tell you what a diminished scale is’.

    Watch on YouTube at 2:33

  2. 3:13

    Puts the two diminished chords together; from a dominant root it is half-whole, from a diminished note whole-half.

    Watch on YouTube at 3:13

  3. 4:26

    The four dominants come from two diminished chords; asks what the third diminished is for.

    Watch on YouTube at 4:26

Believe: a talk to musicians

Almería, 2014 — 60 min On YouTube

  1. 5:10

    Calls the half step, whole step answer ridiculous; without the real scale you miss most of the music.

    Watch on YouTube at 5:10

  2. 19:41

    Players think half step, whole step without knowing four dominants come from every diminished.

    Watch on YouTube at 19:41

Interview: Detroit, Bud Powell and the shuffle

various, 1987–2019 — 24 min On YouTube

  1. 2:56

    In an interview, calls the half step, whole step description of the diminished scale nonsense.

    Watch on YouTube at 2:56

Day one: an introduction to the method

Bilbao, 2016 — 53 min On YouTube

  1. 26:11

    Full recording of the Bilbao class: the dominant roots form a diminished, giving the scale.

    Watch on YouTube at 26:11

From the lessons2 lessons, 8 points

Notes taken from Barry’s classes, each tied to the moment it comes from.

Four dominants from every diminished chord

  1. Exercise

    Play a diminished seventh chord and lower any one note by a half step, leaving the other three alone. The result is a dominant seventh whose root is the note you lowered. From C diminished: lower C to get B7, E-flat to get D7, F-sharp to get F7, and A to get A-flat 7. From B-flat diminished you get A7, C7, E-flat 7 and F-sharp 7 (the captions say F7 here, but lowering the G of B-flat diminished gives F-sharp 7, and F7 already belongs to the C diminished family). Barry credited the idea to Schoenberg.

    Jazz theory, part 3: four dominants from one diminished8:36Student performances and coaching33:2934:02A word to guitar players1:08

  2. Idea

    Barry called these four dominants brothers and sisters, one family, and asked who you play with first: your brother and your sister. So the four dominants of a diminished chord are the first ones to use together. He said the average horn or guitar player thinks only in half steps and whole steps without knowing that four dominants come from every diminished chord, and that you really should know what the diminished is. He also called the guitar the best instrument, one we should learn from.

    Jazz theory, part 3: four dominants from one diminished9:10A word to guitar players0:34Believe: a talk to musicians19:41Jazz theory, part 3, with score9:16

  3. Idea

    Barry rejected the usual definition of the diminished scale as an alternating half-step/whole-step pattern: if that’s all you know, he said, you miss most of the music, because so much of it comes from the diminished. For him the scale is the diminished chord plus the four roots of its dominants, and those four roots form a second diminished chord, so the scale is two diminished chords put together. Start on the root of one of the dominants and you get the half-step/whole-step pattern; start on a note of the diminished chord and you get whole-step/half-step.

    Believe: a talk to musicians5:10Jazz theory, part 5: the sixth diminished scale3:133:50Student performances and coaching34:42

  4. Exercise

    Barry had a student hold a C7 with just two notes and place major triads from its family above it: an A triad, a C triad, an E-flat triad. The chord has to sound pretty. With the E-flat triad on top, add the E natural next to the E-flat; without it the sound reads as a minor 7th rather than a dominant.

    Jazz theory, part 3: four dominants from one diminished9:109:4410:15

Minor thirds and the diminished family

  1. Idea

    The twelve notes divide into two whole-tone scales and into three diminished seventh chords, and nothing goes beyond those twelve. Barry reminds the class of this as a basic fact to know before working with diminished chords.

    Jazz theory, part 2: drop voicings4:58

  2. Idea

    Everything is minor thirds, Barry says; it is the most important interval of all. The whole-tone scale gives you major thirds, but the diminished chord gives you minor thirds. So the major keys a minor third apart, C, E-flat, F-sharp and A, are brothers and sisters: one family. C major’s family is E-flat, F-sharp and A, and you practise them together.

    Jazz theory, part 1, with score4:23

  3. Exercise

    In a class in Bilbao, given through a Spanish interpreter, Barry described the diminished scale as the four notes of the diminished chord combined with the roots of the dominants it relates to. Each diminished note therefore sits between two of those roots: E-flat, for example, is surrounded by D and F. Exercise: from a diminished note, move to a neighbouring note and come back to the original, and do this through every inversion of the diminished chord.

    Diminished chords0:331:091:412:18

  4. Idea

    The first way to modulate, Barry says, is with the diminished chord. He calls the diminished the ruler: you may think you are heading for G, but the diminished can say no and take you to F, B-flat or C instead. One diminished chord can lead you into several different keys.

    11 March 2016, part 2: the diminished as ruler2:39

In writing7 notes

What his interviews, his students’ class notes and other teachers’ articles add.

How other teachers explain it2 videos, 20 series episodes

Barry’s students, and their students, teaching it their way. A second opinion, not Barry.

In the teaching series

Episodes on this idea in the long series by other teachers. Each name opens that whole series in order.

Read further6 links

These open on the web.

Free to read

Books and paid courses